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- Misc Machinist Interest
- Antique Machinery and History
- Thread starterClodbuster
- Start dateMar 30, 2013
- Replies 17
- Views 5,254
C
Clodbuster
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2012
- Location
- Tri-Cities, WA, USA
- Mar 30, 2013
- #1
Need some help identifying the correct chain type for the quill counterweight on my 20 inch Barnes drill press. I've looked around at the pictures I could find and the chain type appears to be different on other presses. I think mine is wrong as it is slightly too wide for the sheaves it runs on and the peened over link pin ends have worn a step in the sides of the sheave.
Here's what I have - it looks suspiciously like repurposed bicycle roller chain...
The pictures I've seen show leaf/counterbalance chain instead. If someone could give me the spec on what chain is original that would be awesome, but failing that dimensions and/or pictures so I can figure it out would be great too.
Thanks.
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ratbldr427
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2006
- Location
- jacksonville,fl.
- Mar 31, 2013
- #2
That is old bicycle chain,sometimes called "skip tooth chain".I looked for some a while ago and could only find some master links and used sections on E-Bay.I don't think any new has been made for many years.Ironically I needed it for a machine instead of a bicycle also.We have some old International finishing machines that use several hundred feet each for the carrier adjusters.I think back when bicycles first started started using roller chain it was very expensive so by eliminatlng every third roller and pin it probably saved a lot of money.Since yours runs over pulley sheaves I would just buy some wire rope and replace it.Leaf chain would be overkill and more expensive for a small counter weight.
Randy
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Bruce Johnson
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2006
- Location
- Burbank, CA USA
- Mar 31, 2013
- #3
My two Royersfords, one of which I know to be completely original, both have a small leaf-type chain running down to the counterweight. Here's the style of chain in McMasters, although they don't carry it in a small enough size:
I'm not in the shop at the moment, but I think the size is 3/8" pitch x 3/8" wide, or maybe 1/4" x 1/4". It's small, but obviously has plenty of strength for the job.
The reason for the leaf chain is that it doesn't twist easily, and rolls smoothly over the flat pulleys. Lots of things would work, even some flat rubber or leather belting. It's not that much weight. But the correct original thing would be the leaf chain. Back in those days, leaf chain was much more common. Many more things were counterweighted. Now we use rubber belts and springs. Or gas cylinders. Booooring....
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Tom A
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Location
- NW Florida
- Mar 31, 2013
- #4
My 20" Fairbanks has a leaf type chain like that (quite small) also , and pulleys with a flat bottom groove to match it - I believe it's original .
I'll have to go and measure it ..........
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C
Clodbuster
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2012
- Location
- Tri-Cities, WA, USA
- Mar 31, 2013
- #5
Measurements would be fantastic!
I could set it up with wire rope, rawhide, rope, etc. or use with what's on it, but I'm trying to return it to original wherever possible. It's also fun figuring these things out and getting to know the machine and what its builders were thinking.
Details like these are what make old machinery fascinating - today a builder or designer would never dream of using an expensive chain like this. But in this era where things were commonly counterweighted and quality was more a focus than now it made sense.
Every machine is a window into the technologies, values and biases of the time it was designed and built. That's what makes this so interesting.
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Ohio Mike
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Location
- Central Ohio, USA
- Mar 31, 2013
- #6
Interesting, my Royersford 21" has tangle resistant style twist link chain and the cast pulleys have a rounded groove in them.
John Deere used to use this stuff on the old chain operated markers on the 694/494 era corn planters.
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pan60
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
- Location
- Arkansas USA
- Mar 31, 2013
- #7
Ohio Mike said:
Interesting, my Royersford 21" has tangle resistant style twist link chain and the cast pulleys have a rounded groove in them.
John Deere used to use this stuff on the old chain operated markers on the 694/494 era corn planters.
Thats what my 20'' has as well.
I have another one on the way I will see what it has.
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Joe Michaels
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Location
- Shandaken, NY, USA
- Mar 31, 2013
- #8
Some of the old drills used what was known as "sash weight chain" for the counterweights. This hasn't changed in at least 100 years, other than maybe being available only in a bright zinc plate vs the copper coating the old sash chain had.
I'd agree, almost anything would work in this application. If you are not too picky, what about using the chain from a junked bicycle ? People tend to toss relatively complete bicycles, so getting chain should be a no cost proposition. My old Cincinnati Bickford camelback drill, CA 1917, has plain roller chain (not the skip tooth style) for the counterweight. I suspect that what counterweight chain got used to assemble these drill presses was what the purchasing agent came up with for the best price, or what the jobbers had locally. Your drill may have the skip tooth style chain, but the same make/model drill built before or after your drill's production run may well have regular roller chain. I've seen this a lot with off-the shelf purchased components on various machinery, machine tools, or heavy equipment. I take the view that old machine tools, at least the ones I own, are meant to be used and worked, not "primped, prettied up, and pickled". I use my machine tools, not as display or museum pieces. If you can come up with something correct for the time period your drill was made, even if it is not spot-on with what you have found on the machine, IMO, go with it. I'd be disinclined to use wire rope with swedged eye ends as it was not typical on the old drills. But, there are three other "historically correct" options in the form of the non-twist chain, sash chain and regular roller chain vs skip tooth chain. The non-twist chain is certainly also correct for the era. McMaster sells both- sash chain in different load capacities and the non-twist chain as well as various pitches of roller chain.
Joe Michaels
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Peter S
Diamond
- Joined
- May 6, 2002
- Location
- Auckland, New Zealand
- Mar 31, 2013
- #9
This is a W.F. & John Barnes 25 Inch Drill, but poor detail. I no longer have this machine, but I will ask the present owner for details. It almost looks like straight rather than 'waisted' side plates.
Here is the counterweight chain on my 1944 Barnes Drill (different company). So not applicable...but may be of interest to someone 
Note, the pitch varies between inner and outer links! Approx. 1" pitch over two links.
Inner links are made up from 3 plates.
Note the last "inner" link is solid, this is anchored to a drum on the quill cross shaft.
Approximate measurements are:
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